Proceedings of: Workshop on Improving Building Design for Persons with Low Vision

Issue 21: What additional education and training are needed for supervisors of employees with low vision?

Question by Vijay Gupta: So, Marsha, I’ve got a question. Are you saying that the chief architect’s space where I work, which I consider not accessible at all because there is no contrast, is that not in compliance? Is the office of the chief architect, which is a non-contrast environment, the old white on white on white environment not accessible?

Response by Marsha Mazz: Let’s take that specific case and figure out what possible things might happen. If you were to file a complaint with the U.S. Access Board, which enforces – that’s my agency – which enforces the Architectural Barriers Act, we would not – we would not make a finding in your favor because there is no violation of the Architectural Barriers Act accessibility standards. We would then refer you to your own section 502 HR folks, your own folks in GSA, and we would say to you, you may have a right to a reasonable accommodation under the section 502 of that act and this is the person you should contact in GSA.

You would go to that person in GSA and you would negotiate a solution that works for you. If you were assigned to the chief architect’s office and you said, I can’t navigate this office because of a lack of contrast, under reasonable accommodations and under employment law, they would have a variety of options. And one option might be to relocate your office to a place that you could function in, presuming you could still do your job with its relocation.

And most people with disabilities would object to being segregated from their – from the workforce. But I’m just telling you that I can reasonably anticipate that outcome. The other outcome, which is less likely, is that the chief architect will be instructed to paint contrast and build contrast into the space. You might also be asked for documentation of your medical condition and to document the need. We don’t have anything to document that there’s been a violation of a building standard. It’s a yes/no thing. The standard exists and it’s clear and it’s interpretable. So, is that 1 in 12 or is it not 1 in 12? If it’s not 1 in 12, we don’t care who brought the complaint because whether or not it interferes with their ability to negotiate the building is irrelevant. It’s a fact-based claim.

Comment by Dennis Siemsen: Okay, so let me see if I can summarize this. Let’s use Deb’s example here. So I’ve been hired by a federal agency. I go to work and for some reason I can’t do my work, whether I don’t have an accessible workstation because I have a vision impairment, materials aren’t printed in big print, I mean, whatever it is. And I could use Mayo Clinic as an example too, and again –

Response by Marsha Mazz: But they’re not federal, so let’s stick with federal.

But let’s say they were. They’re a big outfit and you’d think some place like Mayo Clinic would be – boy they’d be great. They’re really into employee – it’s one of the 10 best places in the nation to work, blah, blah, blah. But I come in and first of all I’m just tickled pink to have this job, because I’m disabled, and to get a job in the federal government with easy benefits and it’s stable, man, I am on cloud nine. For a veteran, there are no other jobs back [home] and I got a job with the VA? Man, what could be better. You think I’m going to go and start making waves here and say, gee, you know, I think I’ll file a complaint?

Response by Marsha Mazz: Many people do.

Okay, so that’s one thing. And then, let’s say [the employee goes] to the [Mayo] HR office but HR doesn’t really know anything about vision, because our employee health people don’t know anything about vision. Fortunately they had me around but they don’t always call me first. But let’s say the employee goes to the supervisor and the supervisor for whatever reason decides, I’m not going to do this. I’m going to just drag this out.

Comment by Debra Babcock: Maybe they’re new management.

Response by Dennis Siemsen: Who knows?

Comment by Debra Babcock: Right.

But it just doesn’t happen. I mean, shouldn’t there be like either an ombudsman or some –

Comment by Marsha Mazz: Yes, it’s called the U.S. Equal Opportunity Employment Commission.

Comment by Kurt Knight: But we have required training every six months, that if you as a new manager don’t know that it’s your responsibility to do these things, ultimately it’s going to come back on you that you’re not doing your job.

You could be held accountable. If you don’t help this employee and somebody finds out that it took weeks or months for this employee to get the accommodations, you know, then it could reflect badly on the supervisor.

Comment by Marsha Mazz: I didn’t mean to initiate a discussion of equal employment opportunity law and I don’t know how useful that is. All I meant to do was to say if we’re going to start out, a good starting place is in the areas of the building where an employee with a disability has less defined rights to influence changes in the building.

Like wayfinding within the building. The number one complaint we get from people with vision impairments is not that their workstation doesn’t work for them. It’s that they cannot find their way. They can’t get from the bus stop to the building entrance. They can’t get from the building entrance to their office. They can’t get from their office to the library to the cafeteria to whatever else needs to happen within any given daily routine, and so that’s the number one complaint we get from folks. It isn’t that when I’m sitting at my desk I can’t do my job.

Now, that may be just because of who we are. But I just am only suggesting that that the areas where you might have not only a greater impact but also areas where, as Kurt has suggested, you may be able to marry the low vision issue to the safety issue, because when you’re in an environment that is not your work space and you have to evacuate that building or you have to get out of that building, you know, quickly, then the factors that we’re talking about, you know, the ability to see the way, to identify that means of egress, to use this fixture as part of an easy egress becomes even more critical.

So if you’re going to marry the needs of individuals with low vision to the safety factors, I would think that in the general circulation within the building and within the public and common spaces within the building is the best starting point.

Let me just summarize. So what I’m getting at is, who acts as the advocate for the employee?

Comment by Debra Babcock: The manager. And that’s why I was asked to create the website. You summarized it perfectly. The commissioner said, you know what, this is an issue. We need to get a handle on it. We need to consolidate this information so the manager can say, I need this application, what are the steps, one, two, three.

So if the employee or somebody else identifies that there’s a problem – where are we going with this?

Question by [Participant]: Well, just to elaborate on what you were saying, in Vijay’s case, could the board help him in the negotiation to get the plant put back?

Response by Marsha Mazz: I won’t make that kind of commitment because we try not to interfere in an agency’s, you know, employment decisions and this is essentially the agency’s negotiation with Vijay. We might be able to provide Vijay information that will enable him to represent his needs better to his employer. But we would not intervene between an employer and his or her employee.